Navigating Multi-Generational Leadership

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This episode of the Energy Pipeline is sponsored by Caterpillar Oil and gas. Since the 1930s, Caterpillar has manufactured engines for drilling, production, well service and gas compression. With more than 2,100 dealer locations worldwide, Caterpillar offers customers a dedicated support team to assist with their premier power solutions.

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Welcome to the Energy Pipeline Podcast with your host, KC Yost. Tune in each week to learn more about industry issues, tools and resources to streamline and modernize the future of the industry. Whether you work in oil and gas or bring a unique perspective, this podcast is your knowledge transfer hub. Welcome to the Energy Pipeline.

00:00:50 KC Yost

Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the Energy Pipeline Podcast. Today we'll be having a multi generational discussion on a really great topic, how to manage multi generational organizations, with our guests Danny Emanuel and Blake Villarrubia, members of the Southern Gas Association's Committee on Multi generational Leadership. Welcome to the Energy Pipeline podcast, guys.

00:01:16 Blake Villarrubia

Hey, good morning, KC. Nice to be here.

00:01:19 Danny Emmanual

Hey, KC, thank you for having us. Nice to be here.

00:01:22 KC Yost

Great to have you guys here. So before we start our visit, if you would please take a few minutes to share your background with our listeners. So, Danny, let's start with you. Now, you got your undergraduate at fiu, you spent some time at ou, and you're in the Army Reserve. So thank you for your service. Tell us about yourself.

00:01:41 Danny Emmanual

Thank you again, KC. So my background is in natural gas engineering and management. I currently hold a master's degree in that from ou. Right now I'm a senior project manager overseeing transmission pipeline projects and renewable natural gas projects. I want to say I started off in the natural gas space back in 2018. Before that I did per distribution engineering design and I taught robotics. So that's a little bit about me. High level, KC.

00:02:11 KC Yost

Yeah. Robotics, huh? Yes, that sounds. Sounds fascinating. Went from robotics to natural gas. What a switch.

00:02:20 Danny Emmanual

Well, it was not that much of a big deal, but a smooth transition, I would say.

00:02:26 KC Yost

Good, good, good. So, Blake, you got your undergraduate at lsu and was that an MBA from U of H? Go Cougs.

00:02:36 Blake Villarrubia

Yeah, that's correct. Go Cougs and go Tigers. Yeah. Graduated in 2014 from LSU with a degree in civil engineering. Made my way into the oil and gas industry as a pipeline engineer. Currently work for Audubon Engineering as a project manager in our global project execution Group. We're an EPC construction design firm when it comes to SGA. I've been involved in SGA since probably 2020 or 2021 in our multi generational leadership committee. And you know, it's, it's always been a passion of mine to make sure that there's, you know, duty of knowledge transfer within our industry and to make sure that there's, you know, ushering in a new workforce, new generation of leaders within our industry. So that's how I found myself, you know, involved in SGA as well as organizations like YPP USA and Couldn't, couldn't love it more.

00:03:36 KC Yost

Excellent, excellent. So do you have a little elevator speech on your committee?

00:03:41 Blake Villarrubia

Yeah, I sure do. So the SGA Multi Generational Leadership Committee. I know it's a mouthful, but within the leadership section of SGA committees and really we exist to provide opportunities for SGA member companies to come together, sharing experiences, lessons learned, challenges, successes of managing multi generational leadership teams. So really we meet on a monthly basis, we bring member employees of all generations together and we essentially just have an open forum where we talk about the different challenges that we're meeting in our companies as well as what we're doing to approach those challenges, what's working, what's not working. And we're actually going to be developing some content for all the SJA member companies as far as lessons learned and best practices.

00:04:35 KC Yost

Excellent, excellent. It's become a real challenge with the multi generational connection. And I was heavily involved with SGA. So shout out to SGA. I was with them probably 25 years or so, the associate member management committee, the old technical shorts that I think are still around from cti, which is now the Southern Gas Network, I believe. And so we were very much in tune with knowledge transfer. And you guys are taking it to a new level. And I, I appreciate you guys doing this and continuing on. So. So shout out to SGA. When I started in the industry in the mid-70s, there was what we called the greatest generation and then baby boomers me. Right. And that was those two generations. And we had trouble communicating with each other, but we did do that communication. But you know, the workforce today looks a lot different with regards to the different generations. And how does that look different from, from the past? I mean, you've got multi generations, right, that are in the same workforce. So what's that look like today, please.

00:06:07 Blake Villarrubia

Yeah, so if you, you think about our workforce today, I guess technically we have five different generations represented. You have what you mentioned, KC, before the baby boomers, which I think is technically the silent generation, there's just a few of those left in the workforce. Most of those folks have retired. But the other four main generations that work up make up the workforce. Are your Baby boomers, your Gen X, your millennials and your Gen Z.

00:06:34 KC Yost

And which one are you guys?

00:06:36 Blake Villarrubia

I'm a millennial.

00:06:37 Danny Emmanual

Technically, I'm a millennial, so.

00:06:39 KC Yost

Okay, super.

00:06:41 Blake Villarrubia

So, you know, coming from a millennials perspective, obviously the, the workforce I think heavily favors millennials right now. As as far as quantity wise, Baby boomers make up about 19% of the workforce today. Really US global wide, not just US global wide. So not just our industry. Our industry is probably a little bit different, but baby boomers make up about 19%, Gen X is about 35, millennials is about 39, and your Gen Z's are sitting at about 6%. And for maybe four or five years now, millennials have actually been the majority of the workforce overtook Gen X a few years back. So as millennials are making up a larger and larger portion of the workforce, you've got your baby boomers and your Gen X is slowly starting to retire, move out of the workforce. In the past, what you saw was baby boomers being the larger percentage of the workforce for a long time because it was such a big generation as we're starting to see them age out and retire. Gen X was a smaller generation. Especially when you take into account our industry, there were a couple of downturns right in the middle of the careers of the Gen X generation. And you know, we use the term brain drain a lot in our industry because you don't see as much denectures. So that leads kind of a fundamental problem because you've got your baby boomers who are holding majority of the knowledge in the industry aging out, Millennials starting to take over some leadership roles in the industry, but you don't have as much knowledge to build from because your baby boomers are aging out. And that's why knowledge transfer is so important. So you know, there's age distribution fluctuations, differences between say the past and now. Like I said, baby boomers used to make majority of it, they're a large generation. But nowadays millennials loyalties are, I would say, inconsistent. Sometimes it's hard to understand what millennials and Gen zers want. But while they're younger, they are more tech savvy, come with their own challenges. So you know that that's kind of where I see the, the status of it is today. And personally that's why I think know such an important thing. So generationally, that's what we're facing in the workforce. And I think hopefully the rest of what we'll talk about in the podcast today will shed some light on what companies can do to manage that well.

00:09:38 KC Yost

As a baby boomer. Again, congratulations on working diligently on knowledge transfer. It's key to make our industry succeed. So let's talk about how managers can encourage collaboration between the younger employees you mentioned were more tech savvy and the older employees like me that may have more technical industrial experience. I was fortunate when I started working at Tennessee Gas Pipeline they actually had an engineering training program where I got out and worked as a welder's helper. I dug bell holes, I I ground slag, I worked as a bending engineer and did all sorts of cool stuff and got hands on experience, looked at meter stations and worked with Daniel senior fittings and all sorts of things like that. So I had hands on experience. So how, how do you manage that collaboration and or is the younger generation interested in getting out and getting their hands dirty?

00:10:53 Danny Emmanual

So KC, it's very interesting you mentioned that. I was just thinking about that this morning in regards on the job training or training programs where a lot of people did back in the day. I could remember when I started on the gas business I had a side by side trainer that taught me everything in regards to distribution natural gas. But today we're see a lot of managers, they're meeting with you via teams or they're asking you to come in because a lot of jobs today are more so remote. So I would never forget when I started my position in Colorado, my manager at that time we met and he provide that training to me side by side. But I think in this industry today to bridge that gap with your tech savvy workers and your baby boomers or your more older workers is just having that side by side collaboration. But it's a lot easier when you jump on a teasy thing. I can message Kasey and hey Casey, are you free at 5pm? Yes I'm free. Put it on my calendar so it's not missed. Sometimes you show up to a training with someone and they're not there because they had to run out on a job but you have it on the calendar, it pings you like 15 minutes before that meeting and it's like hey this meeting is coming up with KC. Other stuff that I am seeing in the industry today is more so getting that reverse training. So you pair that younger individual with that older individual that works at a company and they both switch what knowledge they have in regards to the feel and the work that you're taking part of. And next few things that I'm seeing today is lunch and learns during lunchtime you have A training session with everyone, they get together on that zoom or teams call and you basically talk it out. I think before when a lot of people was in the office, they had lunch and learns where they brought lunch in and you over a training stimulation or something that everyone wasn't getting in the group, someone got up and taught that. Next thing that I saw that is a lot more prevalent in today workforce is best practices. So you would get an individual like Casey, he's been with a company for 30 years and he teaches everyone else in the company, hey, this is how this process or procedure is performed and you got that knowledge from that person. So there's a lot of multitude of stuff that's taking place today in regards to the younger generation and the older generation to making sure that collaboration is foster in a meaningful way.

00:13:40 KC Yost

But is there a lot of hands on, get out, get in the ditch and do construction work so that is.

00:13:50 Danny Emmanual

There any of that anymore the hands on? One more so is with those technical trainings. A lot of individuals are signing up for technical training courses where they go to a site and they receive that training. I bring it back to their team and they teaches teach that knowledge to their team. In regards to the hands on, it's kind of iffy. Like I said today with how technology is moving and everything is a teams meeting or zoom call. What I have learned in my previous role when I worked in Colorado is the VP part of the smart goals. One of them was to meet everyone within service district and just learn something, get on site to see how pipe is being put in the ground, how the construction is taking place. A lot of that today has been very beneficial for me in my career. And I think a lot of companies are using that to make sure that the older generation that's within that field, they're not leaving with that knowledge, but passing it on to the new generation that's entering the field.

00:14:58 KC Yost

I've got you. I got you. So. So career development plans and training processes have changed significantly in the last almost 50 years, right?

00:15:12 Blake Villarrubia

Yeah.

00:15:13 KC Yost

So, so, so good. So this, this kind of guy, guess gets into mentorship efforts, right, Blake? And how do you match mentors with mentees?

00:15:30 Blake Villarrubia

So the first thing to do is really understand your mentorship program. I guess first thing to do is have a mentorship program. Really taking a step back. Statistics show for say Fortune 500 companies having an active mentorship program, it does wonders for employee engagement, employee retention, and not just for young professionals, but senior professionals as well. You know, Danny mentioned think reverse training, right? It Is true that that helps with mentorship. So understanding what your mentor mentors want to get out of the program, their goals was driving them to get in the program. Um, don't be afraid to even have a form, right, to have them fill it out and you've got something to compare to what the mentees want out of the program. So really, in order to pair mentors and mentees, you have the information, you know, you can go as far as having each participant take a personality test, leadership tests, what have you, and you can match those personality types to pair them. That's more of a, you know, more of a effort to do that, I would say. Or like I said, you can simply collect info in each participant, align their commonalities, such as similar goals, similar geographical locations, so they can have in person meetings, similar roles, similar departments, something that maybe the mentee has aspirations to move up his career into a specific role. You find somebody in that role and you pair them up as their mentor. And really, when it comes to a successful mentor program, I'll say you need to think about what the benefits are for your employees as well as for your company. It's really important for young professionals, I think particularly to participate in a mentorship program and for their companies to provide that to them. If you think about young professionals and what I mentioned, young professionals, it's more like the millennials, gen zers, they typically want to do things themselves, right? They grow, grew up in the YouTube, the Google generation, where independence is kind of second nature, right? When I was growing up, when I wanted to learn how to change my tire in my car, I looked up a YouTube video. I didn't ask my dad, not that he didn't know how to do it or wanted to teach me, but you know, that's just what came to me because I had the Internet at my fingertips. But that also means those generations, they seek constant validation, require constant feedback, right? So having a mentor helps provide those things for a young professional. Not only, you know, limitless knowledge, presumably, but also a sense of belonging helps them make their work feel more fulfilling. So really providing that for a young professional is huge. And the best way to help them engage is to have one on one mentoring face to face, if you can, with program volunteers, not people that you're forcing into it, right? People that are volunteering because it means they're passionate about it, they will give it 100%. And establishing a formal mentor program is, is good, but I think it works best when it's, it's kind of run loosely Right. You let the mentor mentee organically form that relationship, maybe sometimes giving groups a little push that may need them, but you know, helping them define learning goals, set milestones, offer and collect regular feedback and don't be afraid to make changes as needed. But as a whole, I think mentorship, a mentor program, is one of the biggest and most beneficial things companies can do when engaging in multi generation teams, because it helps not only your young professionals get engaged more in the company, feel more valuable to that company, but also, you know, you're taking care of your knowledge transfer goals, you're taking care of your senior professionals, giving back to the company and sharing that knowledge too.

00:20:04 KC Yost

So not all companies have mentor programs, but that shouldn't make a younger person feel left out or an older person like me felt left out in trying to pass on knowledge. You've got, I know here in Houston we've got the Pipeliners association that has a mentor program. Janie and I met through ypp. They have a mentor program. And there are a lot of industry organizations that have programs that if you want to be a mentor, you can go and find these industry organizations. And if you are wanting to be a mentee, the same is true. Correct. It's just a matter of, of reaching out to these industry organizations to, to get involved. Right?

00:20:59 Blake Villarrubia

Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So YPP USA does have mentorship program. I'll throw a little plug in for YVP USA, but their nonprofit organization, you have to be 35 years or younger and in the pipeline industry to join. But it's free to join for anyone that meets those criteria. There's other organizations like Inga foundation that has a mentor program, but what I'll say for young professionals listening to this podcast, if you're in a company that doesn't have a mentorship program, don't wait for them to create one. You know, go take the initiative yourself to go talk to one of your roles. Sorry, one of your role models in the company and just, you know, ask them to be your mentor. You know, set up a frequent meeting with them if they agree to it and take the initiative yourself. And for any company leaders that are listening to this, if you have a bandwidth, you know, I recommend creating a mentorship program and it's, it does wonders for your company.

00:22:02 KC Yost

I think that's a great point that you mentioned, Blake, that, that just because the company doesn't have a formal mentorship program, that doesn't mean that the young engineer or, or yeah. Couldn't walk into another more senior engineer's office and ask them to, to be a mentor for them if just bounce ideas off, off of them. Right. So don't let. Because you don't have a, a formal program doesn't mean that you can't have your own program yourself.

00:22:39 Blake Villarrubia

Right?

00:22:40 KC Yost

Right.

00:22:40 Danny Emmanual

I'll give a caveat to that. KC and Blake, maybe I never call him my mentor, but when I started in a gas business, my colleagues that I work with, up to this day, I still call them about stuff in regards to, hey, how is this done? And those individuals, I always reach out to them in regards to what is taking place in the industry, how they have done it before. Does this make sense? So again, going back, you never know anyone within your company if they, if you don't have a mentor program, just reach out to our person and ask them, hey, can you be my mentor? Can you teach me this? There's a lot of stuff that I've learned over the years from older individuals within the industry that have been very fortunate to meet and just making those connections again, going back to that is all a big part of networking. You never know when you will need that information from the individual that has it in the future.

00:23:37 KC Yost

So, so let's look at it from the mentor's perspective, if you don't mind. I've participated in some, some mentor programs and I've enjoyed the heck out of it. But, and I've had some informal discussions with younger engineers over the years, but I've always wanted the younger engineer to initiate the conversation. If, if Engineer X had a question come to me about it or if we have a formal mentor mentee program, I'm not going to be the main facilitator of that. I want the mentee to initiate the conversations and, and take charge of it because it to me shows their interest in learning what I know. So now is that, is that selfish of me of taking that position, that, that we expect the younger generation to initiate the conversations? I don't want to walk in and say, hey, I know a whole bunch of stuff. Do you want to learn stuff from me? I mean that, that sounds egotistical and I, I'm just not that way. Is it wrong for me to sit back and wait for the mentee to come and talk to me or if I haven't heard from him for a, a couple of months, just to send them a note saying hey, how you doing? And leave it at that and let them address any specific questions about that raises. Is that, is that reasonable?

00:25:05 Blake Villarrubia

Yeah, I think it is. That kind of goes back to my point earlier, KC, that for a good mentorship program, you want folks that are volunteering for it.

00:25:16 KC Yost

Sure.

00:25:16 Blake Villarrubia

Right. If you have a mentee that's volunteering for a mentorship program, they're going to be more ambitious and more gung ho about joining that program and will take the initiative to reach out to their mentor, ask them those questions, get what they came to get out of it. So I think that's the right way to do the relationship, at least in my opinion. Occasionally you'll have a mentor mentee relationship that isn't really cohesive and may be difficult for that rapport to kind of develop. Sure. In that case, you know, there's no shame in asking whoever's running the program if you can switch off or maybe, you know, come prepared with a list of questions if you're really finding it hard to connect with that mentee. But I think you're, you're right along the, the right vein there, KC, with a, this mentee started this relationship with an intent to get something out of it. Why not let them ask the question to get what they want out of it? But of course, if you see them struggling to do that, maybe a little bit of push would always help.

00:26:24 KC Yost

And, and, and so when we talk about this, this maybe a little bit of disjointedness or just not a, a good match. You know, communication styles differ across the generations. You guys have talked about and about zoom calls and this, that, and the other. I participate in three weekly calls in my work. I still work part time, and I'm the only person that turns my camera on during those, those calls. And that's okay, but that's who I am. If I'm going to have a mentee, I want to see them face to face. If it's physically possible. If they live in the Houston area, all drive to go meet them face to face. So communication styles across different generations exist. So, so how do you bridge those gaps?

00:27:23 Danny Emmanual

So in regards to communication styles across different generations, again, it's a big talk in the industry today and across the world in regards to how you communicate sometimes. I'm a texter. I'm, I like, hey, KC, what are you doing today? But more so I feel like, and this just for me, I'm kind of old fashioned in regards to how I communicate at work. I would rather give you a call or walk down the hall to discuss something with you versus sending an email, because sometimes email are misconstrued. But today I realized that when Millennials and Gen Z's we're like, you hold a whole meeting via Zoom or teams, and this could have been an email or a phone call. So it just depends on how we look at the communication that we want to have, but making sure that basically you're having that talk with your manager or the individuals on the team and, hey, this is how we communicate. But it all goes back to how that team leader was. I wouldn't want to say brought into the fold, but did they have any previous training? Any servant leadership training? Any. The word is escaping me. Situational leadership. Like I said, servant leadership. But what was the training style that they received to communicate with their team? How do they want the communication to be taking place? Because like I said, today, a lot of communication styles are flowing around in the world. We want to text, we want a phone call, we want an email, we want a Zoom meeting, or we want to meet in person. For me particularly, I would like to meet that person in person to discuss any projects or anything pertaining to our project that I'm working on or have a phone call. Because like I said, we could send a long email and it's like, well, what were you really trying to say, Danny, in this email? So that's my take on how the communication is different. Today. I would. Before I leave on that, I will say this. Back in 2018, we were still doing interoffice mailing. So if we needed to send something throughout the state, we will put it in a wrong envelope, person name on it, the office, and send it stuff that needed to be digitalized. We was printing papers out, signing our name on it, and sending in an inner office or scanning it back in. So today communication is a lot different. Now. I don't even have to print a paper out to sign it. I could digitally sign it through Adobe, you could do DocuSign. So there's a lot of multitude of things that is making the communication a lot more easier, but not a lot of work that you have to do just to get something to someone.

00:30:22 KC Yost

I remember when email started and I had a real problem with it because I could not hear the genuflection of the voice. And you read the typing and you'd say, you know, whiskey Tango, Foxtrot to this guy. You know, why are you saying it this way? And it was misconstrued. You know, I call the guy up and say, what are you trying to say here? And it would be totally different than what I was reading in the email. And so I had to learn how to not get excited about the black and white but to try and read what they were trying to say. Now we've gone to abbreviate that with texting and make it even shorter to the point where I've had to adjust again. I make fewer telephone calls, but, but I've, I miss that genuflection of the voice, you know, Hi, how are you? Hi, how are you? Yeah, you don't have that.

00:31:28 Danny Emmanual

It's a lot different. Like before site visit, you had that Polaroid camera. You had to go back to the office, download the SIM in the computer today. Now I could go in the field, I could snap a picture, a video, send it right off to everyone so they could see today. Now you have cameras on the sites that you can look in real time that this is taking place. So communication has changed a whole lot.

00:31:53 KC Yost

Technology is wonderful. I, I find myself running a sprint to try and keep up. Let's talk about some advice. What advice would you give to the younger managers who are trying to lead older employees like me? What do you tell my boss? I'm working part time. What do you tell my boss?

00:32:17 Blake Villarrubia

I'll go ahead and I can take this one. I struggle with this still. I'll be honest. And being in groups like YPP and sga, Multi generational Leadership Committee, I see a lot of young professionals who are in leadership positions who are leading older employees. So we'll say this is a big concern for younger managers. And what I've learned and just from conversations of what others have learned, it's really about respect and it's about working to understand each individual on your team at a deeper level. So, you know, respect everyone's knowledge, respect their experience, you know, and a really easy way to do that to your older employees, especially the ones that are very, very tech savvy or technologically like advanced, like they're technological expert.

00:33:19 KC Yost

Sure.

00:33:19 Blake Villarrubia

In their field.

00:33:20 KC Yost

Right.

00:33:21 Blake Villarrubia

Is ask them a thousand questions a day to learn from them because it's going to flatter the heck out of them and they'll learn to know that you respect their knowledge and their experience.

00:33:32 KC Yost

By the same token, let me, let me say by the same token, the older guy, person, engineer needs to know when to speak up. Right. Don't, don't contradict a manager in front of others. You know, step to the side after the meeting and say, you sure you really want to do it that way? And point out why. Let them make the decision. But, but don't, don't point out errors or concerns that you might have in front of others. Right. I mean, that comes Back down to self respect as well. Sorry, I didn't mean to take you off the tangent there, but I'm learning.

00:34:17 Blake Villarrubia

Oh, no, that's perfectly fine. Yeah, no, that's a great point because it comes back to respect, right? If that senior employee that you're leading contradicts you or makes you look bad in front of the team or the client, then there's not respect there, right? So if you're showing them respect, you would think they would reciprocate that same respect, and in the situations, it would pay dividends. And maybe another way to do that is, you know, use those experienced people to guide and train others, even if they're not managers. And that would show them that you respect their knowledge and their experience as well. For, for other members of the team, you know, just show you're interested in what they do, making an effort to learn from them, work to understand them at the deeper, deeper level. And kind of going back to the communication thing, understand what their preferred form of communication is. Is it text? Is it teams? Is it email? Is it phone call? Is it person meeting? Right? Everyone's going to have a different preferred form of communication. Learn what each team member wants and adjust your communication styles to your team that way. And that'll. That'll show that you're being honest. You know, you're gaining their trust by letting them know, like, hey, I might not know everything. And I need you to help us complete this task as a team. So it'll help build, you know, credibility, help build trust, really. I think the, the biggest piece of advice I can give to any leader as a whole is be authentic as a leader. You know, lead with authenticity. Show your team that you care about them and, you know, adjust your leadership style as you need to for, for that knowledge for each team member.

00:36:12 KC Yost

Dude, that was great advice 50 years ago. So I'm glad. Glad you're sharing that. Glad you're sharing. Yeah, look, I've, I've enjoyed the heck out of this conversation. I, I really enjoy visiting with you guys. Great, great stuff. We're running out of time, so I just want to throw out there. Is there anything else you guys want to add before we, we sign off? We covered everything that you want to cover today.

00:36:37 Danny Emmanual

I think we covered everything on our. And thank you guys for having us on my end. That's all I have.

00:36:45 KC Yost

All right, good. Well, thanks to you guys and thanks to your committee and thanks to the Southern Gas association for what you're doing and working hard on this, this issue. Again, it wasn't an issue. In the mid-70s when I started working, there were only two generations to deal with. Now you've got four generations that you're trying to deal with. Good luck and Godspeed on that. So yeah, so so thanks for taking the time to visit with us today. If anyone would like to learn more about the Southern Gas association and their programs and committees, you can find them on the web@southern gas.org that's southern gas.org thanks to all of you for tuning into this episode of the Energy Pipeline Podcast sponsored by Caterpillar Oil and Gas Family. Questions, comments or ideas for podcast topics? Feel free to email me@kc.yostgn.com I also want to thank everyone at the Oil and Gas Global Network for making this podcast possible. Find out more about other oggn podcasts@oggn.com this is Casey yo saying goodbye for now. Have a great week. Keep that energy flowing through the pipeline.

00:38:00 B

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